Anand Jain
Anand Jain
Anand Jain
Episode 04
Episode 04
Episode 04
102 min
102 min
EP4: Unlock Limitless Customer Lifetime Value!
EP4: Unlock Limitless Customer Lifetime Value!
EP4: Unlock Limitless Customer Lifetime Value!
Why Does This Episode Matter?
Why Does This Episode Matter?
Why Does This Episode Matter?
In the latest episode, Saurabh sits down with Anand Jain, Co-Founder of CleverTap, for a conversation that finally brings clarity to one of the most misunderstood areas of modern marketing: retention.
At a time when acquisition costs are soaring and brands are unknowingly paying to reacquire the same users, Anand breaks down what truly drives customer lifetime value — not discounts or gimmicks, but trust, unified data, and meaningful engagement.
His journey and first-principle thinking offer founders, marketers, and operators a rare, practical playbook on how to build real relationships, fix broken retention engines, and drive long-term growth without burning money.
In the latest episode, Saurabh sits down with Anand Jain, Co-Founder of CleverTap, for a conversation that finally brings clarity to one of the most misunderstood areas of modern marketing: retention.
At a time when acquisition costs are soaring and brands are unknowingly paying to reacquire the same users, Anand breaks down what truly drives customer lifetime value.
His journey and first-principle thinking offer founders, marketers, and operators a rare, practical playbook on how to build real relationships, fix broken retention engines, and drive long-term growth without burning money.
In the latest episode, Saurabh sits down with Anand Jain, Co-Founder of CleverTap, for a conversation that finally brings clarity to one of the most misunderstood areas of modern marketing: retention.
At a time when acquisition costs are soaring and brands are unknowingly paying to reacquire the same users, Anand breaks down what truly drives customer lifetime value — not discounts or gimmicks, but trust, unified data, and meaningful engagement.
His journey and first-principle thinking offer founders, marketers, and operators a rare, practical playbook on how to build real relationships, fix broken retention engines, and drive long-term growth without burning money.
Anand Jain
Co-Founder of CleverTap
Topic discussed
Topic discussed
Topic discussed
In this episode of Dilse Omni Podcast, Saurabh and Anand dive deep into retention marketing — how to build real relationships, fix broken retention engines, and drive long-term growth without burning money.
Ever had a tense email turn into a solid partnership? That’s exactly how it began between Saurabh Agrawal and Anand Jain. A campaign broke during Christmas 2021, a few sharp emails flew around, they fixed things together, and somewhere in that chaos, a real mutual respect was built.
"When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I really admire that about you," Saurabh told Anand, reflecting on how CleverTap responded to feedback not with defensiveness, but with action.
Anand's response captures his philosophy perfectly:
"We are not perfect as a company. We're not perfect as a product but every day you become better. The only way to become better is to listen to your customers."
In this episode of Dilse Omni Podcast, Saurabh and Anand dive deep into retention marketing — how to build real relationships, fix broken retention engines, and drive long-term growth without burning money.
Ever had a tense email turn into a solid partnership? That’s exactly how it began between Saurabh Agrawal and Anand Jain. A campaign broke during Christmas 2021, a few sharp emails flew around, they fixed things together, and somewhere in that chaos, a real mutual respect was built.
"When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I really admire that about you," Saurabh told Anand, reflecting on how CleverTap responded to feedback not with defensiveness, but with action.
Anand's response captures his philosophy perfectly:
"We are not perfect as a company. We're not perfect as a product but every day you become better. The only way to become better is to listen to your customers."
In this episode of Dilse Omni Podcast, Saurabh and Anand dive deep into retention marketing — how to build real relationships, fix broken retention engines, and drive long-term growth without burning money.
Ever had a tense email turn into a solid partnership? That’s exactly how it began between Saurabh Agrawal and Anand Jain. A campaign broke during Christmas 2021, a few sharp emails flew around, they fixed things together, and somewhere in that chaos, a real mutual respect was built.
"When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I really admire that about you," Saurabh told Anand, reflecting on how CleverTap responded to feedback not with defensiveness, but with action.
Anand's response captures his philosophy perfectly:
"We are not perfect as a company. We're not perfect as a product but every day you become better. The only way to become better is to listen to your customers."
The Journey from Burpp to CleverTap
Before CleverTap, Anand had already tasted entrepreneurship, and its disappointments. In 2006, he returned from the US and launched Burrp, a restaurant discovery and review platform. The idea was solid, inspired by platforms like Yelp. But timing wasn't on his side.
"The VC ecosystem was not as mature as you see it today... Very early VC ecosystem, not too many entrepreneurs in India. It was very hard for me to scale this up," Anand shared.
What's remarkable is how Anand reflects on watching Zomato, which started around the same time, become one of CleverTap's biggest customers today.
The Journey from Burpp to CleverTap
Before CleverTap, Anand had already tasted entrepreneurship, and its disappointments. In 2006, he returned from the US and launched Burrp, a restaurant discovery and review platform. The idea was solid, inspired by platforms like Yelp. But timing wasn't on his side.
"The VC ecosystem was not as mature as you see it today... Very early VC ecosystem, not too many entrepreneurs in India. It was very hard for me to scale this up," Anand shared.
What's remarkable is how Anand reflects on watching Zomato, which started around the same time, become one of CleverTap's biggest customers today.
The Journey from Burpp to CleverTap
Before CleverTap, Anand had already tasted entrepreneurship, and its disappointments. In 2006, he returned from the US and launched Burrp, a restaurant discovery and review platform. The idea was solid, inspired by platforms like Yelp. But timing wasn't on his side.
"The VC ecosystem was not as mature as you see it today... Very early VC ecosystem, not too many entrepreneurs in India. It was very hard for me to scale this up," Anand shared.
What's remarkable is how Anand reflects on watching Zomato, which started around the same time, become one of CleverTap's biggest customers today.
Why Customer Data Shouldn't Live in Silos?
Why Customer Data Shouldn't Live in Silos?
Why Customer Data Shouldn't Live in Silos?
Anand observed that the Customer data was scattered everywhere, web analytics in one tool, mobile analytics in another, A/B testing somewhere else, SMS and email handled by different vendors.
The engineer's brain went into overdrive. What if there was a platform that unified all this data and let you act on it instantly? If a customer struggles on your homepage, pop up help. If someone abandons their cart, send a friendly nudge.
In 2013, after four years at Network 18, Anand, Sunil, and Suresh took the plunge and started CleverTap. The next three years were spent building TesseractDB - a database that could store all customer data in one place and activate it instantly for analytics, predictions, and personalization.
Anand observed that the Customer data was scattered everywhere, web analytics in one tool, mobile analytics in another, A/B testing somewhere else, SMS and email handled by different vendors.
The engineer's brain went into overdrive. What if there was a platform that unified all this data and let you act on it instantly? If a customer struggles on your homepage, pop up help. If someone abandons their cart, send a friendly nudge.
In 2013, after four years at Network 18, Anand, Sunil, and Suresh took the plunge and started CleverTap. The next three years were spent building TesseractDB - a database that could store all customer data in one place and activate it instantly for analytics, predictions, and personalization.
The Hidden Gold Mine: Leads Who Never Converted
Saurabh shared a practice that transformed his approach: "In digital-first brands, you have five times more leads who have not bought but signed up but never purchased. If you focus on those as well, the marketing efficiency really kicks in."
Anand agreed: "Anyone that has ever shown an interest in your product... that means someone took the effort to show up on your website or download your app. Not everything leads to a purchase. In the real world also, we may walk into a mall, check out products, try them on... and mentally take a note that we'll come back later."
These "warm" leads already know your brand. Reaching them at the right time, through the right channel, with the right product recommendation dramatically improves conversion rates.
The Hidden Gold Mine: Leads Who Never Converted
The Hidden Gold Mine: Leads Who Never Converted
Saurabh shared a practice that transformed his approach: "In digital-first brands, you have five times more leads who have not bought but signed up but never purchased. If you focus on those as well, the marketing efficiency really kicks in."
Anand agreed: "Anyone that has ever shown an interest in your product... that means someone took the effort to show up on your website or download your app. Not everything leads to a purchase. In the real world also, we may walk into a mall, check out products, try them on... and mentally take a note that we'll come back later."
These "warm" leads already know your brand. Reaching them at the right time, through the right channel, with the right product recommendation dramatically improves conversion rates.
Saurabh shared a practice that transformed his approach: "In digital-first brands, you have five times more leads who have not bought but signed up but never purchased. If you focus on those as well, the marketing efficiency really kicks in."
Anand agreed: "Anyone that has ever shown an interest in your product... that means someone took the effort to show up on your website or download your app. Not everything leads to a purchase. In the real world also, we may walk into a mall, check out products, try them on... and mentally take a note that we'll come back later."
These "warm" leads already know your brand. Reaching them at the right time, through the right channel, with the right product recommendation dramatically improves conversion rates.
Decoding Lifetime Value (LTV): It's Not a Static Number
Decoding Lifetime Value (LTV): It's Not a Static Number
Decoding Lifetime Value (LTV): It's Not a Static Number
Most of the time brands think that lifetime value is a static number... But Anand said that LTV comprises of four components: average order value, frequency of purchase, gross margin, and the tenure of the customer.
Most of the time brands think that lifetime value is a static number... But Anand said that LTV comprises of four components: average order value, frequency of purchase, gross margin, and the tenure of the customer.
The key insight? "It's a curve that you can continuously lift. We've seen brands with customers for upwards of 10 years—very happy, loyal customers."
Saurabh added a fascinating dimension from his Lenskart days: "I used to think frequency of purchase is once in two years. But slowly I realized they built categories, specs for morning, specs for office, specs for evening, power sunglasses, powered contact lenses. You're increasing the number of products the same person consumes."
The key insight? "It's a curve that you can continuously lift. We've seen brands with customers for upwards of 10 years—very happy, loyal customers."
Saurabh added a fascinating dimension from his Lenskart days: "I used to think frequency of purchase is once in two years. But slowly I realized they built categories, specs for morning, specs for office, specs for evening, power sunglasses, powered contact lenses. You're increasing the number of products the same person consumes."
The Cohort Confusion
Both Saurabh and Anand bonded over a common frustration in the industry: marketers misusing the word "cohort."
"One of the biggest mistakes marketers make is using this word cohort... 'Which cohort are you targeting this week?' They mean segments actually—male cohort, female cohort. This is a gross mistake.," Saurabh confessed.
A true cohort is a longitudinal study, people acquired at a certain time, tracked over a period. Think Gen Z vs. Gen X. You track their behavior over time and observe patterns.
"Cohorts are mutually exclusive," Anand clarified. "People in January 2025 will be different than people in February 2025. Net new users, not representing people who came back."
The Cohort Confusion
Both Saurabh and Anand bonded over a common frustration in the industry: marketers misusing the word "cohort."
"One of the biggest mistakes marketers make is using this word cohort... 'Which cohort are you targeting this week?' They mean segments actually—male cohort, female cohort. This is a gross mistake.," Saurabh confessed.
A true cohort is a longitudinal study, people acquired at a certain time, tracked over a period. Think Gen Z vs. Gen X. You track their behavior over time and observe patterns.
"Cohorts are mutually exclusive," Anand clarified. "People in January 2025 will be different than people in February 2025. Net new users, not representing people who came back."
The Cohort Confusion
Both Saurabh and Anand bonded over a common frustration in the industry: marketers misusing the word "cohort."
"One of the biggest mistakes marketers make is using this word cohort... 'Which cohort are you targeting this week?' They mean segments actually—male cohort, female cohort. This is a gross mistake.," Saurabh confessed.
A true cohort is a longitudinal study, people acquired at a certain time, tracked over a period. Think Gen Z vs. Gen X. You track their behavior over time and observe patterns.
"Cohorts are mutually exclusive," Anand clarified. "People in January 2025 will be different than people in February 2025. Net new users, not representing people who came back."
Under the Hood of Modern Retention Platforms
Under the Hood of Modern Retention Platforms
Under the Hood of Modern Retention Platforms
When asked what powers a modern retention marketing stack, Anand broke it down:
1. CDP (Customer Data Platform): The foundation that stores all customer behaviors, not just transactions. "Every behavior... what ad campaign got them in, everything is saved with extremely high fidelity."
Analytics: Understanding what's working and what isn't.
Message Orchestration: Not just sending messages, but knowing which channel, what timing, what frequency.
Offers and Loyalty: Buy one get one? Flat discount? Wallet credits? Getting creative with incentives.
Personalization: Because sending irrelevant messages all day helps no one.
"AI is sprinkled in everything," Anand added. But it's not cosmetic, it's meaningful.
When asked what powers a modern retention marketing stack, Anand broke it down:
1. CDP (Customer Data Platform): The foundation that stores all customer behaviors, not just transactions. "Every behavior... what ad campaign got them in, everything is saved with extremely high fidelity."
Analytics: Understanding what's working and what isn't.
Message Orchestration: Not just sending messages, but knowing which channel, what timing, what frequency.
Offers and Loyalty: Buy one get one? Flat discount? Wallet credits? Getting creative with incentives.
Personalization: Because sending irrelevant messages all day helps no one.
"AI is sprinkled in everything," Anand added. But it's not cosmetic, it's meaningful.
The biggest takeaway from this episode?
The biggest takeaway from this episode?
The biggest takeaway from this episode?
LTV is not static — it’s a curve you can lift with product, frequency, and relevance.
LTV is not static — it’s a curve you can lift with product, frequency, and relevance.
Your warmest leads are the ones who never purchased — they’re the real goldmine.
Your warmest leads are the ones who never purchased — they’re the real goldmine.
Unified customer data is the backbone of retention — silos kill personalization and insight.
Unified customer data is the backbone of retention — silos kill personalization and insight.
This is just the beginning. If you’re ready to understand how AI and Omnichannel thinking work together, and want to build a loyalty program for your brand, feel free to reach out at <saurabh@daiom.in>.
This is just the beginning. If you’re ready to understand how AI and Omnichannel thinking work together, and want to build a loyalty program for your brand, feel free to reach out at <saurabh@daiom.in>.
This is just the beginning. If you’re ready to understand how AI and Omnichannel thinking work together, and want to build a loyalty program for your brand, feel free to reach out at <saurabh@daiom.in>.
Talks with Saurabh Agrawal
Talks with Saurabh Agrawal
Talks with Saurabh Agrawal
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